Episode 8: Why the Six Layers of WHY Create Success

Episode Transcript

Kyle: This episode includes a book recommendation, which is intended to be helpful or interesting to the listener/reader of this podcast. The book is not intended to be a source of financial or legal advice, please consult a qualified professional before making any financial or legal decision. This is not an endorsement or confirmation of any of the content, opinions, or recommendations within the book, or from the author. The author, Travis Freeman, earns compensation from sales of the book. As he is a Partner with Moneta, this can be a conflict of interest when the book is recommended to clients of Moneta. Please contact Travis if you have any questions about this relationship. Any trademarks and copyrights of materials presented herein are the property of their respective owners.

Kyle: Welcome to another edition of Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most. It’s a podcast with Moneta’s Gast Freeman Troyer Racen Team. What Matters Most is different for everyone, and of course, you need to make wise decisions to be sure you and your family are financially secure, but that’s only one aspect of your well-being.

My name is Kyle Luetters, joined by Danton Troyer. And Danton, a guest on today’s show that is actually very close to us physically, he’s in the office next door. His name is Travis Freeman and he’s one of the partners here on the team. We sat down with Travis because he has now written another book. Again, spoiler alert, it’s about finance, but it goes much deeper than that.

Kind of give us a little bit of a preview of what we ended up talking to Travis about.

Danton: Yeah, it’s a fun interview. I’ve known Travis since college. Just talking to him and understanding he’s written one book, now he’s writing a different book, still finance-related, but completely different, which we’ll talk about in this podcast. But also just understanding his process, and how it was different from one book to the next, and the motivation was completely different as well. Really just understanding, why would you write another book? I had the, I don’t know if privilege is the right word, but I saw him in the time he was writing the first book, and it certainly didn’t create less stress in your life. It’s a big commitment to write a book. Why would you do it again? There’s obviously a good reason for that.

Also, you see on TV, writer’s block. I guess it’s a real thing, apparently. Understanding how he was able to get through that quickly enough to keep the book on track without really just losing the entire book.

Kyle: Exactly. The momentum thing, that was very interesting. He also gets into some of the nuances there of what’s included in this book that’s not included in your typical financial book, which I thought was really interesting. With that all being said in that primer, here’s our conversation with Travis Freeman.

At this time, we’d like to welcome a partner on the team, Travis Freeman to Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most.

Travis is here today to talk about a new book that he has written, the second book that you have written in your career. Travis, number one, welcome, and then two, tell us a little bit about the new book, the title, what’s the general gist of this new work?

Travis: I appreciate you bringing up both books, but I will tell everybody don’t go out and buy my first one. My wife told me it’s boring and it was only about 92 pages long, but this one took me about four years, the new one, The Fortune of Youth. I’ve been told I cannot write a third one until the kids are grown because it took me four years of banging away at the computer for this one.

Kyle: That’s what your agent and your business manager said, correct?

Travis: Yeah, yeah, there you go. Something like that.

Kyle: Got it.

Travis: Yeah. But this was, it was really written to help tell the story of what people have done, right? Because in this industry, we are blessed to talk to a lot of people and many people have found significant success, financial success. So, the book was about what have people done to reach the fortunes that they sought out to have? Not everybody wants to be a billionaire. Some people are really happy when they get to the enough threshold, right? And what could you do early in life to position yourself to get to that point? And if somebody is in their twenties, thirties, early forties that reads it and uses even half of what’s in there, I think they’ll do just fine.

Kyle: Perfect. And so you mentioned that first book and you referenced it a little bit. How is this book – beyond just looking at it here on table, you’re well beyond 90 pages – what’s the major difference between the two books?

Travis: So, the first book was more of a niche. You know, years ago, Danton and I were doing a lot of corporate presentations and trainings, right? And it got to the point where literally I could not travel and do more. So, I wrote a book on how folks could have their own training at a place of employment. So it was more for managers, HR folks, maybe a small business owner to have, right? This is completely different focus.

Danton: Yeah, true. So, you know, maybe what was the difference? I mean, obviously between the two books, but you know, when you go into this, what was maybe a different mindset? Because, you know, you had your first book and you’re like, I’m going to do this again. Why would you want to do this again? And what made it different?

Travis: So, the first one I wrote in a year, this is BK, right? Before kids. Nice delineation there. Yeah, it was me at the computer pretty much every night after work. And I saw the first one as telling the story, but also just more of as a business card, frankly, to show that I have expertise in this area, to say I wrote the book on that.

This one, I kept telling myself, okay, put together something that people are going to love and can practically use right away. And there were points where I had written an entire chapter and I’d go back over it and I’m like, this is silly. It’s very technical, but I need to be able to have someone not fall asleep, right? I’ve got to have more stories in here and figure out how to take this technical thing and make it real simple to where they can just start using it, right? So, there were multiple times over the last four years where I would actually go back and just erase a ton of material.

And it was hard, but that didn’t answer your question, right? What was I thinking? I kept thinking, I have to make something that people are really going to appreciate and tell their friends about. And the hard part was having to hit backspace so many times and delete stuff, but it took some time and I think I got there.

Kyle: I want to jump in here. So, four years of writing the book and you mentioned having to basically go back to maybe not a full blank page, but was there ever a point in that four-year period of time that you almost gave up on this pursuit? And maybe your wife had other words we can review later, but was there ever a time, did it mess with you mentally a little bit when you’re going through that many revisions as to wanting to get the whole thing done?

Travis: There was a point where I had, there was a lot going on in life and I hadn’t touched the book in something like six or eight weeks. And then I went back down to the computer and had maybe an hour and I was just lost on where I stopped and had to go reread things. And I lost so much momentum that I ended up not even going back to it.

I went back upstairs, got busy with the kids. I don’t think I touched the thing for four or five months.

Kyle: Wow.

Travis:  And the hardest part of writing a book is the momentum part. The first one was great because I just had a pattern. I did it in one year.

The pattern, if I broke that, I just lost my momentum, had to go backtrack and read about what I wrote. And once I got back into the pattern, then I was able to go through that. So that’s the one thing I’d recommend if anybody ever tries this is just carve out time and make sure you’re always doing that.

I probably deviated a little bit from your question there, Kyle, but that’s something I learned a lot with the second one.

Kyle: Yeah. Part of the reason why we ask the questions is we get the stories behind it once we get you talking.

Danton: So yeah. I feel like you answered about six of my questions with that answer. But with the book, there were obviously different motivations for writing each of the books.

What do you hope to get out of writing this book as compared to maybe the first one? But I mean, this is a completely different animal.

Travis: What I hope to get out of this one is one of two things:

One, let’s say a younger person, right? Let’s say someone just got out of college or high school. They read it. What would make me so happy is if I hear from them years or even a decade or so later and they go, hey, I read this book and I implemented these things and I can’t believe I just hit a million dollar net worth or just bought my second home. Whatever their goal is, right? That milestone.

Kyle: Yeah, some milestone.

Travis: That would be so neat. And I really hope that happens.

Or, someone reads this book and says, hey, and this has actually started to happen, I bought four of these, one for each of my kids and my niece and nephew because they absolutely need this, right? So that’s started to happen.

But I think the most fulfilling part will be when it comes full circle and people say, I did it;I followed it and it was life changing.

Kyle: Yeah. There’s something about like, here’s the plan, follow the plan instead of trying to deviate too much. But if you actually work the plan, the result was what you were looking for. And that’s got to be gratifying because you are kind of the person that’s laying out the plan and providing that guidance.

To get a little technical into the book, and then there’s a wealth of information in here, but I really was intrigued by how you started the book. Because again, there’s a lot of financial books out there that are very technical. You started with helping people shape what the why was. And can you talk about that and the six layers of why and why you chose to start the book that way?

Travis: Yeah. I’ve read many books and many of them have a why section. And I worried a little bit that if somebody sees a why section in a wealth building book, they go, I don’t want to go through this. But you almost can’t exclude it.

The reason I put why in here is if somebody wants to, let’s say, start a business and grow that business into what you might consider generational wealth, or they want to have so much wealth, they can give a ton away to charity or start their own, change the world… There is a lot of work and sweat and tears and sacrifice and complexity that goes into that. Now, this book, someone could just work at a company all their life and get promoted and save really well. They could do that, too. But if somebody ends up going the entrepreneur or intrapreneur route, there’s going to be a lot of headwinds ahead. So, to be able to have the staying power, to be able to have enough in the tank over time to go through all these things I’ve outlined, you have to have a solid why. It’s your foundation. And as soon as the ground shakes, if you don’t have that solid foundation, everything crumbles underneath you. And the six layers of why that you ask about, that’s an exercise I went through years ago.

And I had done why exercises, you know, why do I want to have success in my life? Why do I want to do these things that are stressful, right? And I thought I didn’t need to go through another one. But when I went through the six layers of why, I got deeper than I had ever gone. And that’s why I wanted to share the message.

A great quick example. If I, if you, let’s say you guys ask somebody, hey, why do you want to buy the second home? Or why do you want to reach a $5 million net worth? Whatever, whatever their goal is, right? They might give you an answer. And you ask them why again.

And by the time you’ve asked why six times, either they’re going to be crying, and you got to get your tissues out, or they’re deeply frustrated.

Danton: My six-year-old has his down for sure. He wants to know why for everything.

But I get the point.

Kyle: Hey, he’s just working the system that he saw in Travis’ book here.

Travis: He’s a future author.

Danton: He’s waiting for the audio book he can’t read yet.

Travis: But you get it, right? You just peel away layers. And once I did that, and I peeled away all these layers, it was actually a moment, you know, the moment where you kind of get goosebumps in your skin, right? And you just feel it. That happened to me. That actually happened to me. And I did it. I wrote it on a piece of paper six times, the why answers, and then it hit me. That is my why, and I just never had peeled it back that far.

Kyle: So, there was like a physical reaction when you peeled it that far.

Travis:  For sure.

Kyle: That’s pretty interesting.

Travis: It was neat. It was a neat experience.

Kyle: Is there a certain way that you have ordered the book? Is there a specific reason to the chapters, is the way they go in sequence? Is there any thought behind the ordering of it? They should do these in these certain steps? Or, you know, kind of go through it. Because there’s a lot of tenants here that talk about our financial well-being, and it’s interesting the way that that’s kind of laid out.

Travis: That was another time-consuming thing is I wrote the book in a certain order, and then when I thought it was done, I said, this doesn’t make any sense. And I started reordering it all, and then I would reference, you know, hey, by the time you get to chapter five, and I had to change all that. I mean, that took another probably three or four months.

Kyle: Catching all of those.

Travis: Oh, just to reorder it and then change it and cut things out. I mean, truly, and it was about trying to—it was a passion behind just trying to make the book as great as you could. But by the time I got all the chapters right, I got the foreword and 16 chapters in here, you get the why first, then there’s some history and going through the basics, and eventually you get into some of my favorite chapters, like the health-wealth connection and the compound career path. The compound career path is probably my favorite one.

Kyle: Okay, why is that?

Travis:: Even as financial professionals, anybody that understands the concept of compounding, for example, whenever—most people, they go through their life and their career, and they think about the next months or year ahead, or maybe their next performance review. But if you start thinking about your career as something that can be compounded over time, and you think about it over the course of five, 10, 20 years, all of a sudden, you can reshape and rethink the way that works.

I’ll give you a quick math example. Take two 25-year-olds. One makes $70,000 a year. One makes $45,000. Actually, in the book, it’s $48,000 a year. Now, you might think, hey, good for the one that’s making $70,000 at the same age, right? But the one that’s making $70,000 only gets a 2% cost-of-living adjustment each year.

The one that’s making $48,000 has a 4% cost-of-living adjustment. Not a big difference, right? The one at $48,000 that started out in a position with more growth potential, by the time these folks get into their mid-40s, they’ve actually crossed, and the person who started out on the lower end but had 4% growth winds up with almost $100,000 more of annual income.

If I was talking to a group of college students, or they were about to graduate from college, I would say, look, yes, I get it, I know why you’d be going out and looking for the highest salary you can possibly find, but look for the growth potential. Look at your entire career, because that is life-changing, and you tie that into how you can save, and invest, and have the things you want, and give to the charities you want.

Kyle: Amplifies it more.

Travis: Oh, my gosh, right? That’s the reason that’s probably my favorite chapter, because I don’t want anyone to look back over their life and go, gosh, I wish I would have thought about it differently. It’s in the book

Kyle:. You wrote the book on it.

Travis: You got it. You got it.

Danton: There’s a lot of those lessons that, as you get older, it’s common sense, but to your point, when you’re 20, that may not be common sense. You do, you think, well, I’m going to go get the highest-paying job, because that’s what everyone tells you to do. But thinking about it in a more broad picture, I’ve seen that with family members where it’s like, well, she had an opportunity to take a higher-paying job, but it was going to be a little more stress, and it wasn’t worth it to her because she was safe. But it was like, well, you’re going to be compounding off that higher salary for the rest of your life, so if you stay at this lower one, that opportunity to make that larger jump now may never happen again, and then we compound off that, to your point. So, I think a lot of times, we don’t think about these decisions and how they affect us in the broader impact, especially as we’re younger, it’s harder to have that context. I guess I’m 41 now, so I’m in the middle of the road, and to think I have all the answers is not correct either. So maybe we need another chapter once the kids are out of the house on the new set of life lessons.

Travis: I would enjoy that.

Kyle: An addendum to the book, that’s good.

Danton: I’ll honor the no kids at home, though, so we’ll have to wait a little while for the next chapter.

Travis: So ironically, right out of college, I stepped right into this industry, and rather than going and getting a salary somewhere, I decided to go directly into starting a practice, which as you guys know very well, is really tough. You have all these expenses and no income.

There was a point where actually a friend of ours said, hey, I’m planning my bachelor party. It’s going to be in Las Vegas, and I’d love for you to be there. I was part of the wedding party, and my response was, look, I’m still living at home.I have no money and no income. What little money I do have, I’ve got to hold on to it. I can’t go to the bachelor party. And that was really tough to do at the time, and I imagine a lot of young people would have, it would be really tough. But we ended up having a local bachelor party, and I was able to go, and everything was fine, but there were many examples of where I decided to just sacrifice and focus on my goal, and over time, it helped, and now I don’t have to sacrifice those things.

I planted the seeds early.

Kyle: Exactly, and you farmed well, and that’s a lot of what I think the book is talking about, is cultivating this over time, and you talk about networking to wealth. You talk about side hustles. There’s a lot of things that go beyond what I would say are the basic core tenets of financial literacy and financial planning. Describe some of those at the end, because those were chapters that I had not seen in “financial books,” like Dave Ramsey’s Total Money Makeover comes to mind, and this and that. This went deeper, in my opinion, in those types of areas, so if you want to speak to that, why you included that in there.

Travis: Sure, and feel free to jump in if there were some other examples. In the retirement section, I went through some of the history, and some of the history, whenever I went down that path, I didn’t know about. Obviously, we all know how and when Social Security came to pass, but a lot of the demographic reasons, and what was going on with the president at the time and the global economy, all kind of led into the way that we think about retirement. So part of this was just giving the history, giving people the technical aspects of what they could do to prepare for retirement long term, but also just reframing what it means.

Some people think about retirement as, you know, Friday’s my last day at work, Saturday’s the party, and I never work again. But if you can plan out a life where you can find something that you really enjoy doing, ironically, you don’t have to end up saving so much, so a little bit of this was counter to what you might see with some of these other books: save like crazy, budget, and cut your expenses down.

If somebody would rather not just go through all the stress of starting a business, and saving well, and everything, there’s another method, and that is that, look, manage your expenses, create this lifestyle you love, and as long as your health is there, and there’s a part on health in here, you can continue to do that until you’re 80 years old, because you took care of your body and your mind, right? So, it was fun to write some of that.

Kyle: Yeah, it goes beyond a little bit to your point of what you typically see in a finance book, which is very cold, hard math, and usually is to the tune of just save, save, save, save, save, and work to get your investments to achieve x. But what it’s missing, though, is the personalization, and realizing, going back to the six layers of why, like why you would be doing this. Because, you know, any task, if you have to continue to do it monotonously, without a strong enough why, you just break. There’s only so long you can do it, but if that why is there, and you have a really clear picture of what you want, you can endure much longer.

Travis: For sure, well said.

Danton: Yeah, I think the why, and I think that’s a lot of what misses from a lot of just financial advisors that are trying to help clients. And then we see with clients when they come in, and kind of start asking them, maybe not six times why, but maybe we should get to that that point, but their answers start to evolve as we have more questions, and more discussions around their goals. So, it’s hard, I think, to your point, to have the answer going into it, but asking why maybe more than once, and asking the why over time, because it changes. I think that’s very important, and helps you ground these decisions, because as you kind of talked about it, there’s not one way to do this, and everybody wants the solution. They just want the easy button. This is how you do it. The little pill.

Travis:  Yeah.

Danton: What pill do I take? As we’re talking about that, I said that to my doctor yesterday. I was like, could someone just put a box on my doorstep? This is what you need to eat. This is what you need to do. Just do that, and you’ll be fine.

Kyle: Process, yeah.

Danton: But it doesn’t, it’s not that simple. I’m learning that, as well. You know, health and wealth are very interconnected, and the process it goes through, and so I’m learning the health side a little bit more. But that’s, I think, what people come to us, and they just want us to just fix this.

Kyle: Yep.

Danton: But there’s not a fix, because we don’t know what is your why, and that’s what we have to get out of clients to better serve them better. And that’s the nuance.

Kyle: Yes, that’s the nuance, and what all of this is about, and the things we talk about in the book, is that’s the nuance, and because, again, there are simple things that you can do, but they may not be the best thing for you, or you, or me, for what we’re trying to do. So, fascinating book.

Travis, any other things that we have not covered about this book that you feel are pertinent, that you want people to hear, that you want them to understand? And then, finally, you know, where can they get the book?

Travis: Sure. So, where they can find it is on Amazon, The Fortune of Youth: Create Wealth, Happiness, and Success Early in Life.

And I’ll leave you guys with a parting story.

Kyle: Okay, I like stories.

Travis: So, my wife and I have identical twin boys, and when we were ready to put them in school, we were looking for some Montessori-style schools. Long story, but the Montessori-style was good for them. So, we go to this school, we meet some of the faculty, see the facility, it was beautiful. They sit down and hang out with the kids to assess them.

So, a couple days later, they called us back and said, hey, we know that we told you guys when you were leaving that this is a good school for you, we’d love to have them come in, but we actually just talked to our consultant, and you and about five other families are all involved in this, and I’m so sorry to tell you, but your kids are too old to enter our school.

I said, now, hang on a second. I know we held them back one year before we would try to get into kindergarten to let them age.I said, but you’re telling me because they weren’t in a Montessori pre-kindergarten program, that they’re too old to now enter kindergarten at your Montessori program? And they said, I realize how it sounds, but our program is so rigid in what we need them to understand and learn that since they haven’t learned what we think they should have already the last two years, unfortunately, we cannot allow anybody who doesn’t have that pre-kindergarten experience into the school.

Kyle: Wow.

Travis: Yes. So, we found another great school, and the school has wound up great.

Kyle: They’re in school today, right? Okay, good. Okay, that wasn’t the end of school?

Travis: Yeah. They’re thriving at the school they’re in, but the reason I tell you that story is that it sort of relates to the theme of this book. If somebody wants to have a certain definition of their own financial success in life, and they wait, and they wait, and they wait to begin it…eventually, they will time themselves out.

Kyle: Oh, wow.

Travis: And it is like the opening section of the book about the dentist drilling, filling, and billing. If somebody doesn’t employ these types of strategies, they will waste that precious commodity of time, and it will be near impossible, if not impossible, to reach the things they want because of the time aspect.

Kyle: Wow, powerful stuff. Do you have anything else?

Danton: I mean, yeah, we see it all the time with clients. It’s easier to have these broad goals the younger you are, but the difficulty is when you’re younger, you may not know what those goals are. So, it’s always a juggling act, and it sounds like this book can help folks at least start thinking of those things earlier than later. Because most of us, you get out of school, you hit the ground running, and you go, and you never stop and think about what you’re doing, and does it actually still align with the things that were actually important to you that started all of this. And I think we get too far down the road, and we’re like, oh, we didn’t stop and ask the six whys, and our choices are limited at that point.

Kyle: So, again, everyone, The Fortune of Youth, Travis Freeman is the author. You can pick it up on Amazon.com. And with that, Travis, thank you so much for taking the time and sharing some of the stories and some of the wisdom in the book. It’s been a pleasure.

Travis: Yeah, you bet. Thanks, guys.

And that was Travis Freeman, writer and partner here on the Gast Freeman Troyer Racen team with The Fortune of Youth, his second book.

Danton, and again, in the interview, number one, excellent guest, extremely well-spoken, and really covered a lot of ground inside of that book, and we alluded to it a little bit in the interview, but it really seemed to go beyond some of what I would maybe consider your blocking and tackling concepts in financial planning. It really delved into a lot of different areas.

Danton: Yeah, I think as just people in general want to focus more, I think it’s seen as more exciting, what investments do I pick? What do I do as far as, do I get a Roth IRA or 401k? And they’re focusing on the individual tasks that need to be done without stepping back and really asking themselves, why is this important to them? Because you’re going to need to make probably some sacrifices along the way to be able to do this, and without discovering the why, the investments -they obviously matter – but it’s not going to actually move the needle for you as much as really defining that why.

Kyle: I really enjoyed hearing his physical reaction when he went through that exercise with the six levels of why. We talk about the things in our life that make the hair stand up on our arms, they may trigger something in our brains, but to hear him describe him going through that exercise and eliciting a reaction like that was pretty cool. Again, the other things we’ve talked about, too, it was really unique to hear the difference between that first book that was very targeted and this one’s very broad. I thought that was pretty interesting as well too, as well as the story of going through the whole thing.

Danton: Yeah, two completely different books for that matter. So I think this book is certainly, as you said, more of a broad audience that anybody can actually take something from this. Especially the younger you are, the better this book probably is going to be for you to be able to get that good foundation that a lot of times, like I say, you hit the ground running and you don’t take the time to build that foundation of why.

Kyle: Correct. And this is a great book if you’ve got some young people in your life, it’s great to pick up a copy here or there and distribute that out. Because in Travis’s own words, the sooner this gets into someone’s hands and they can start working the process, the likelihood of them achieving their own defined success, I want to say that implicitly, their own defined success is different for everybody, the higher likelihood there is.

So any final thoughts you have on this one?

Danton: Yeah, you kind of just spurred a thought there. I think a lot of the typical financial books go in with the mindset that you want to be a multi-millionaire and you need to have lots of money and that’s going to buy you happiness. I can tell you firsthand, that is not true.

We have clients with more money than they know what to do with and there’s not a direct correlation to happiness there. So, I’ve said it probably a hundred times and I apologize, but the why matters.

Kyle: Very, very much so.

So again, Travis Freeman, author and partner here on the Gast Freeman Troyer Racen Team at Moneta. The Fortune of Youth: Create Wealth, Happiness, and Success Early in Life is the full title of the book. Be sure to check that out on Amazon.

And Wit, Wisdom, and What Matters Most is a production of Moneta’s Gast Freeman Troyer Racen Team, headquartered in St. Louis, Missouri.

Until next time, enjoy what matters most.


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© 2025 Advisory services offered by Moneta Group Investment Advisors, LLC, 100 South Brentwood Blvd., St. Louis, MO 63105 (“MGIA”), an investment adviser registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission (“SEC”). MGIA is a wholly owned subsidiary of Moneta Group, LLC. Registration as an investment adviser does not imply a certain level of skill or training. This is an advertisement. The information contained herein is for informational purposes only, is not intended to be comprehensive or exclusive, and is based on materials deemed reliable, but the accuracy of which has not been verified. Examples contained herein are for illustrative purposes only based on generic assumptions. Given the dynamic nature of the subject matter and the environment in which this communication was written, the information contained herein is subject to change. This is not an offer to sell or buy securities, nor does it represent any specific recommendation. You should consult with an appropriately credentialed professional before making any financial, investment, tax, or legal decision. Past performance is not indicative of future returns. You cannot invest directly in an index. All investments are subject to a risk of loss. Diversification and strategic asset allocation do not assure profit or protect against loss in declining markets. These materials do not take into consideration your personal circumstances, financial or otherwise. Trademarks and copyrights of materials linked herein are the property of their respective owners.

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